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Dems or Repubs do you honestly feel it is the government's role to end poverty?

1)Do you feel free markets should dictate wages?

2) Do you feel more jobs are NOT created when minimum wage is increased?

3) Do you think minimum wages should just be a stepping stone and not a lifetime choice of wages, an entry level choice for teens and young people just starting out?

Asked By: Pink Tresses - 5/17/2008
Best Answer - Chosen by Asker
I am a liberal Indy.

A) I think you have to define poverty clearly to get a good answer. I think if by poverty you mean "poor", no. If by poverty you mean in danger of dying, I think yes. A government's responsibility is to protect it's people, be it by military means or by structuring its society to allow it's people to survive.


What we have in America is not free enterprise where people are driven by desire/greed, we have prettied up indentured servitude where people have to work or they will die.

That is a basic constant of nature, but it isn't anything to be proud of.

I think we should remove all payments to the poor and instead offer people the bare minimums in terms of housing, clothing, medicine, food, and education for "free". (In the plan I am envisioning, they would still have to give the government 8 hours a week of work.)

I am talking a TINY efficiency with heat and water, private showers and toilets and communal free laundry, but no power outlets for housing.

Three white t-shirts, five pairs of underwear and socks, one pair of plain shoes, and two pairs of pants a year for clothing.

Free medical care for any illness or life threatening disease.

Cabbage, corn, rice, and a day of meat delivered to their door every week.

Free public education at schools for anyone from 4 up to 18 including 3 square meals for anyone who attends. Loans on very favorable terms to any US citizen who is seeking a college or trade education.


I think almost any of us would find these living conditions substandard, but we would be able to survive. My goal would be to keep the poor healthy, ingrain in them a deeper desire to acheive that immigrants have but 2nd, 3rd, and later generation Americans seem to lack, and give all Americans a well known and easily started pathway to succeed through education.

We have been loud (and perhaps arrogant) proponents of free enterprise, but really until we make work a choice rather than a neccessity, we really don't know whether free enterprise is what we think it is.


1) I think with a fallback position like I have laid out it, there are even fewer arguements against free markets dictating wages although I am still against unlimited salaries in corporations. Corporations are the government covering the asses of the businessman. They remove most of a business's responsibilities to the public and allow poorly run businesses to hang on for far too long. There should be pronounced limits on what employees of corporations should make. I would cap them at a multiple of what the lowest paid employee makes with some deviation for the size (# of US employees) the corporation has. I realize that this would dramatically affect international corporations, but lets be honest --- they need our markets and will quickly comply rather than be barred from them.

In execution, lets say Wal-Mart in a year pays it's lowest paid employee $10 an hour or $20,000K annually. As a large corporation, maybe I'd cap their top employee at 300X that or $6 Million annually. I'd tie their executives max earnings to paying their employees a reasonable wage.

Smaller corporations like an individual McDonald's store might be set at 200X or 100X. I would remove a lot of the business protections that incorporating provides and instead offer govt. backed business insurance for low risk buisnesses like retail and resturants. I would make it financially cheap and easy for a business to unincorporate.

I would try to get most businesses that have a structural choice back to being sole proprietorships or partnerships.

Taking this into the political for a second, I think large corporations use small "mom & pop" corporations for political cover.

ie. When a politician mentions attacking corporations, the large international corporations state is an attack on business in general and not on large international corporations.

Getting companies that really don't NEED to be incorporated ---- if minimal protections were provided to them cheaply ---- to unincorporate would unmask the growing problems large international corporations are creating in America.

2) You are fishing for a specific answer by not providing appropriate context. In total theoretic terms, you could have total employment by not having a minimum wage. In reality though you would destabilize the country. The poor would not be able to afford any health care and our poor would become disease incubators making everyone much, much sicker. America is filled will losely controlled guns. If people make more through theft than they do through work, crime will run rampant. As the police move to control that, your government expenses (police and prisons) increase. Your poor would look at the police as a suppressing force and start to revolt attacking the government and the rich.

The minimum wage may be distateful to many Americans as it is counter to their views of Free Entrprise as a Panacea for all economic troubles (a concept that is drilled into American school children daily to the point where American adults treat the concept as some sort of deeply held relgious belief) but the minimum wage is a control mechanism to keep the poor from revolting and destabilizing the country. If free enterprise were a sports car, the minimum wage would be the seat belt or the steering wheel.

3) This is a very fuzzy question. I personally think that teens should not be allowed to work, freeing all of those jobs for the semi-retired. It would be a happy day to see a McDonalds filled with old folks working part time jobs. I personally see teen employment as a big part of the problems we have today. We give too much money to people who are too immature to spend it --- but I do fully get that some teens need money for legit reasons --- their kids or families --- and you shouldn't think of stopping kids from working if no counter plans existed to address the needs of these folks.

To follow this a little further... if Kids have no money they won't be driving drunk, they won't be buying "adultish" clothes which would likely decrease the amount of sex they are having, they won't be buying drugs, they won't be eating out at fast food places every day and getting on a life plan that will make them unhealthy. Frankly probably 50?t least of fast foods places would go away over time. The hole in the wall resturants will survive and possibly prosper with reduced competition as generally parents prefer those.

The Semi-retired would probably be a lot more willing to work in McDonalds and the like if they worked in those places with their peers. That income would really help the shortfalls we are having with medicare and social security.

I'd prefer a fairly radical change in the way we execute free enterprise in our society. As Alan Greenspan noted in his latest book, free enterprise is a hugely destructive creative force in spurring an economy forward. I think we do far too much to shackle the destructive side of it with corporations and that will have us falling behind countries like India and China in short order.
Answered By: politicoswizzlestick - 5/17/2008
Additional Answers ()
End poverty = no

1 = yes

2 = yes

3 = yes
Source(s):
Independent
Answered By: netnazivictim - 5/17/2008
1)To an extent
2) No. Look at CEO wages in comparison to what happens down the chain.
3) It should be, but it's not as the US economy has switched from a manufacture economy to a service economy.
Answered By: Forget War Buy More - 5/17/2008
The causes of poverty are, unwed parents, no high school,
Answered By: Let the facts confuse U - 5/17/2008
I'm a Republican, but my views don't necessarily agree with my party.

1. There could be a minimum wage, but the free markets should decide from there on.
2. Less jobs are created when minimum wage is increased
3. It should just be for entry jobs, people get job raises when they are earned, if people never got raises, they have the right to switch to a job that pays them more.
Answered By: King Duck - 5/17/2008
If you left it up to the markets about wages there would be no working class. They would be paying about the same rate as they do in third world countries.
Answered By: Pat M - 5/17/2008
The free market has always been a disaster, The point government economics is to be a buffer and it is the only reason we have not had a depression since the great one. The distribution of wealth if done in the right proportions spurs on capitalism for intelligence comes from everywhere and equality only gives everyone a chance

besides the problem with the US is not the unemployment rate but the dieing middle class and lowering minimum wage definitly lowers the wages of the middle class
Answered By: olin h - 5/17/2008
As best as i have been able to tell, poverty is defined as being below a certain percentile of income (for instance the lowest 10?, under such definition, poverty can only be ended by absolute equivalence.

I have been asking since johnson era for benchmarks (not using that term though) for poverty war. there is no intent of anything except swinging in international socialists to power. the national health stuff is as futile

my personal opinion is that anyone who lives as well as G Washington is wealthy (clean water, sit-down crapper(a luxery really), roof when rains, food for the day)

answers to sub questions: 1)yes 2)yes 3)yes
Answered By: Robin - 5/17/2008
Markets should be free. Within limits. Without these limits free markets tend to concentrate whatever wealth is available into fewer and fewer hands. Allowed to continue, this will shrink the market. As the market shrinks, society will stratify into a propertied class spending more and more of their time and resources in beating back the desperate class surrounding them. It's happened before.

No society with pretensions to civilization can allow such a thing.
\
So, yes, government should strive to eliminate poverty. There are different ways they might go about it. But if they are responsible, then they will choose one.

edit: a thumbs-up to Politico. You've outlined a good social policy. There'll be a devil in a few details, but overall that's a society that I'd like to be in.
Answered By: Robert K - 5/17/2008
The government's role to end poverty? YES. The private sector is incapable of doing so as the U.S. slides from the top in manufacturing and sales.

(1) No. Bad business models, decisions, and practices are the root of free market lack of success. Outrageous salaries for CEO's should be dictated by the up or downs of the success or lack thereof of the corporation.

(2) No. Same amount of jobs are out there.

(3) No. Minimum wage jobs will always be in existence since Republicans push for and increase a poverty class and even increase numbers of lower middle-class families
Answered By: TBDDF - 5/17/2008
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