How many ft-lbs of energy would you like to have when hunting black bear?

	How many ft-lbs of energy would you like to have when hunting black bear? I have a 308 Win that I can nearly drive tacks with (1" groups at 200 yds consistently) but I am concerned about the terminal ballistics while hunting bear. The bears in my area aren't too big, 200-300 lbs maybe and I'm wondering what my maximum ethical range should be. Also I dont want to wound a bear and follow it into the brush, not my idea of fun. Asked By: Benjamin - 7/12/2009

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I am a long time Alaskan hunter, trapper, and military competition shooter. 1" groups at 200 yards is not tack driving. Shooting at the target, pasting over the hole, and shooting into the same hole again and again all afteroon long - and not having a hole much larger than the first - that is tack driving. 1" groups at 500 yards is tack driving. Black bears are no where near as tough as brown. The 308 is probably the absolutly best round to use on black bear from close in to 400+ yards. Black bears do not have a large sectional density - so - any rifle with more power than a 308 is simply just going to pass through the animal and be no help at all.......... except to maybe wound a second animal behind the first and make more noise. Rule of thumb with bear hunting - you keep shooting until the bear stops moving - this rule will prevent you from having to track a wounded bear. Shot placement is only critical when the bear is in a heavy covered brush area and getting only one good shot off is possible....... ideally you want to fire whent the bear has strayed into an area where you can get several shot off at it before it can reach cover. Generally, if you see a bear today - you can show up earlier and catch it again tomorrow. Keep this in mind - because some bears will look great up front - and their butt or side can be so badly rubbed the hide is worthless and beyond what a skilled taxidermist can fix. My bear hunting buddy and I were glassing a huge grizzly in Sitka one morning. It was a nice big bear, big head, nice fur on the sides....... and then it turned around and whole butt was totally hairless! It looked like the bear had pulled down it's pants and was mooning us - just two big bald cheeks and a butt crack a plumber would be proud to own. I couldn't help myself - I started laughing....I could barely keep it in, my buddy was holding my head to keep the snickers from leaking out..... and the bear heard me and started looking our way. Laughing almost got us killed. It pays to spend the extra time glassing a bear before you shoot it. But, try to keep out of laughing distance. Bears do funny things. Your standard 150gr soft point bullet will work fine. Winchester 'Black Talons' or any handload using a Barnes X bullet will work best. You want to break bones and damage vital organs - bullets like these - and Nosler Partitions - retain their original weight and do a better job when performing a quartering shot. Black bear meat is totally awesome! Wondeful pot roasts, steaks and chops - and sausage to die for. Any sausage recipie that calls for pork you can use black bear, just add extra tallow to make up for the bear meat being lean. If you get one - email me - I have some award winning sausage recipies. That, and black bear tallow and fat makes excellent high quality soap. If you have the fat turned into soap - I can guarantee you, your wife will be all over you asking when you are going to go hunting again. Hope this helps. Answered By: Glacierwolf - 7/12/2009

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If you have a .308, and are shooting at bears that size, then you won't have any trouble at all as long as you put the bullet in the right place. I don't think I would go after a Kodiak with a .308, but it would work for a lil' ol' black bear. Do your part (marksmanship), and stay within 300 or so yds. If you can shoot groups like that, then you will have no trouble. Happy hunting! Source(s): Avid shooter. Answered By: Gregg Andrews - 7/12/2009

A .308 should be fine out to 150 with no problems. As long as you are using decent bullets, good expansion, and can make an ethical shot. Answered By: theblackduck89 - 7/12/2009

If where you live hunting over bait is allowed, do that, then a .308 will definatly drop the bear, and at that range you can kill any black bear that comes along versus just smaller ones at longer range. Use controlled expansion bullets that can punch through the thick layer of skin fat and bone to get to the vitals. Short range you can go for a more rapidly expanding bullet since it will be deliver with more force, but at longer ranges use a more slowly expanding one, this means that it will leave a smaller wound channel but still reach the vitals. Happy hunting! Oliver Source(s): Avid shooter, archer, and hunter Answered By: Oliver - 7/12/2009

Probably over 1300 ft/lbs. the wounding part, though, is up to you. Answered By: ugotservedfries - 7/12/2009

Place your shot correctly and you won't be tracking a wounded anything. Hit it poorly with 100000ft/lbs and you'll have problems. The .308 is perfectly fine, just use a good expanding point bullet and place the shot where it needs to go. Answered By: stupidnameshaveallbeentaken - 7/12/2009

General rule of thumb for any but really big black bears would be around 1,500ft-lbs and whatever range you expect to be your maximum. But it's more important to have a heavy/tough enough bullet to hold together while still being able to expand AND penetrate when it hits the game at whatever velocity it's going. something like a Barnes TSX or Nosler partition traveling over 2,000fps is a perfect example. At whatever distance that bullet is traveling that speed is roughly the cut off point for you to expect a quick, clean kill. With tough hunting bullets like the 165gr Barnes TSX you should have plenty of energy and penetration to make clean kills out to around 300 yards if you are up to placing the bullet correctly. But the closer you get the better when it comes to quickly putting down an animal that can happily kill you if you make it mad. Match bullets and IMHO soft ones like the Ballistic Tip and SST are not advised because usually you will be trying to break one if not both shoulders on bear to anchor them and prevent having to go into the brush after a wounded one. Answered By: Chris - 7/12/2009

For black bear of that size, a 308 would be just fine. I do not know the rule of thumb for bear, but for deer, at whatever distance you shoot them at with a rifle, the bullet should have 1000 ft.lbs. of energy. Now, a deer will most likely not eat you like a bear might. Better to be safe than sorry. No need to go all the way up to a howitzer though. Answered By: whitefeathersnpr - 7/12/2009

Black bears are tougher than deer, and with good forage CAN top 500 lb, and bigger than that up North. I would use the 180 grain Nosler Partition bullet, to be sure of penetration if that big legbone is hit. The sectional density for penetration ability of the 180 grainer is 20?reater than the 150 grain bullet, but I'm not sure weight of a bear divided by its cross-sectional area (sectional density) can be used to calculate wound channel. I'll have to look into that. Answered By: larry - 7/12/2009

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