This really isn't a discussion forum.
Answered By: raVar - 10/31/2009 |
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Outrageous stories whatever .. put a Hitler story in a book and show it to somebody 2000 years from now .. see how its believed .. the bible has alot of true rings to it and yes it is a matter of faith but one thing and one thing only that the world cannot see .. and that is the Spirit of God and that which is revealed .. its not somthing that you can put under a microscope and thats the way God wants it .. if you are missing nothing in your life then what are you looking for? an answer?
Answered By: Spice Boy - 10/31/2009 |
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"But how can you also accept the history that comes along with it, and the outrageous stories in the Bible."
would it be fair of me to say....how can i accept white people when they enslaved Africans for over 400 years? no, it wouldn't. my husband is a white man and i would never hold such a thing against him because it happened so long ago and a major factor is that he had nothing to do with it--get my point?
the earths history is violent. that is just the way is it. i read the word of Go to learn from it. just like you may read a history book....to learn from it. but if you focus on the violence then you are missing the major point of the whole bible. you should focus on what God and Jesus has sacrificed for you.
i wasn't brought up any kind of way. i came into the word of God on my own.
Answered By: Me - 10/31/2009 |
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Read these on line booklets and make up you own mind.
http://www.foolishfaith.com/book.asp
If it could be shown to you through solid and persuasive evidence that God created the universe and everything in it, would you believe it?
Featuring an impressive cast of world-class scientists and scholars, Foolish Faith exposes the failure of mainstream science to answer the ever-present question of where we came from — unveiling a surprising store of controversial facts that support the existence of God, but are largely ignored by the media.
Beginning with a fast-paced trail through the origins of the world’s major religions, followed by a provoking pursuit through the reasoning of modern science, this book’s easy-to-understand arguments will bring you face-to-face with seven tremendous facts that will propel you to rediscover the truth about God’s place in the world today.
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/divine.htm
The Divine Inspiration
of the
Bible
Answered By: Martin S - 10/31/2009 |
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One way to look at Christianity is to tell yourself that Jesus Christ was the one who came along and tried to change many of the old ideas and ideals. In one sense he really was the first civilized person to come along and try and make life better for everyone else.
Back in the slave days times were very savage and the Bible was actually quite soft on people in respect to what was happening back then.
Answered By: knightrider2007 - 10/31/2009 |
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I like the last part of your question, I do believe that christians are a little too sure of themselves and should be a little more critical. But I have experienced religious bliss and the joy that comes from being close to God. And I have only experienced it in a Christian environment so I'm inclined to believe that it is more legitimate of a faith.
Answered By: Brendon - 10/31/2009 |
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You mean an opinion on your need not to believe in Christianity? How about asking a question instead?
Answered By: Socrates - 10/31/2009 |
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"I accept that Christianity is a good basis for how you should act and the values you should have, in terms of how you should treat others and the world around you."
The Bible teaches that atheists are filthy, corrupt, no good doing, despicable, abominable fools that should be stoned to death and you think that is a good basis for how one should treat others. You appall me.
Answered By: shmulfer - 10/31/2009 |
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To say the Bible contains outrageous stories is going a little too far. Many stories, including the "outrageous" Noah's Ark have left evidence in support of these stories.
Many people question the morality of the Old Testament; however they do understand the purpose of the Bible nor its complications.
The status of slavery is quite different from slavery we know of today.
"He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 21:16)
Slaves connect more to servants of today when discussed in the Old Testament. The Bible charges slaves to be obedient, but it also charges landlords to treat slaves like human beings, equal to themselves.
Also there are many messages taught from these sort of circumstances. The Old Testament does not just descirbe slavery, but also portrays a meaninful message to humankind (which I will not go to indepth into).
Answered By: Steven W - 10/31/2009 |
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Alex what are you afraid of? You are hiding from God. He is searching for you to try and save you but you keep running away. When will you stop running and face him? he does not want to harm you. he wants to save you. Your acting like a little kid hiding in the corner with his hands covering his eyes hoping his parents wont find him. God says come let us reason together. Jesus says look i stand at the door and knock if you will open to me i will come into you and dine with you! God wants to fellowship with you. Stop running away. God bless you!
Answered By: Godsproblemchild - 10/31/2009 |
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Logic is leaning to your own reasoning which is contrary to God;
You have been taught this in school and the materials you had to read in order to get through the grades required to go on and learn some more of the same rhetoric which influenced your young moldable mind and it is not at all the way of God;
We who know Him personally can give many ways to show that He is real, He is alive and He is coming back again and if you knew Him you would see what man is doing to you in causing unbelief;
We walk by faith, not by sight
It is not to be understood with the natural mind
Answered By: River of Life - 10/31/2009 |
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Before I answer your question, let me summarize your arguments briefly.
1. Christianity benefits the rich by telling slaves not to rebel.
2. Humans are just machines that reproduce and then die, and so we cannot know and respond to the love of Jesus.
3. Science advances by disproving itself in search of the truth, whereas Christians hang on to scraps of evidence.
Fair enough?
1. Jesus taught that the poor are blessed and showed that the rich may well be taking temporal pleasure in our brief life on earth but losing eternity (see, e.g., the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16).
2. Humans are made with free will and intelligence; our bodies have marvelous machines, but we can act freely, intelligently, and imaginatively in restoring a broken relationship with our Creator.
3. Christianity does require faith that the truths taught by God's friends about things we can't know by science come from God. Science too requires a degree of faith in the scientific method, which itself cannot be verified by science. Almost no scientific finding is known with certainty; virtually everything you believe requires a measure of faith. As another answerer's link shows, science and Christian faith are eminently consistent.
Cheers,
Bruce
Answered By: Bruce - 10/31/2009 |
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You did not ask a question, you attempted to dissuade someone from a belief system. That is a form of evangelizing. Anyway, I will give you my opinion. You have misunderstood the call to submission to 1st century slaves. The Bible calls for mutual submission by slave owners first and slaves secondly. I would encourage you to read The Politics of Jesus by Yoder for an explanation of this concept as I am unable to articulate it in a way that does it justice.
I'm not sure I understand your second point concerning faith and our emotions so I can't give an opinion. Few things can be "proved" or "disproved". No one will be able to prove or disprove Christianity. No one will be able to prove or disprove evolution. Not in an absolute sense. We cannot prove that the existence of anything other than ourselves is not a deception of our senses. There are certain evidences to each that can be interpreted in a variety of ways. So we have manuscript texts of the Bible dating back to the second century. Can you prove that the existence of those texts is not supplied to our sense of sight but some supernatural force? No. So we have a fossil record. Can you prove that that fossil record is not supplied to our sense of sight by some supernatural force, when in reality the fossil record does not exist? No you cannot prove that. That is the way it is with a lot of things. So its not anyone's job to prove that Jesus exists or that His death on the cross is the atonement for sin or any of the other stuff. Its a claim that is made for you to accept or reject. I, due to a number of factors, choose to accept the assertions and claims of Christianity as reality.
Answered By: 300 men in the state of TN - 10/31/2009 |
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Hello Alex,
Thanks for your thoughtful question. Please bear with me if I give you a long answer.
First let me respond to "the history that comes with it". It is true, Christendom and Christian institutions have been involved with much war, hypocrisy, and misery. But so have other religions, and atheistic nation-states, etc etc. Christians would label this the idea that all mankind is fallen, which is to say we know what constitutes good behavior but we all fail to live up to it (some very spectacularly). Even sincere Christians still sin sometimes, and there are plenty of hypocrites too who take the label "Christian" but don't live that way. This is not an argument against Christianity, just a description of the way the world is.
Second, as for the "outrageous stories in the Bible", for the moment let me assume you mean those that offend our fundamental sense of right and wrong - racial bigotry, cruelty, the death penalty for minor infractions, genocide, revenge, etc etc. I agree, there are several of these. Simply put, I do not believe they are from God, I do not believe the Bible to be "inerrant". Not just in a literal sense - I also believe some of the stories are not even metaphorically true. I do not feel that the Bible has to be taken as "all true, or all not true" - whether an atheist or a Christian fundamentalist makes that claim. No one would say that about any other source (Wikipedia for example). Furthermore, I don't see Jesus as being a "Bible-thumper". He quoted scripture where it helped illustrate a point, but was equally willing to go against it or critique it (best example being the 180-degree turn from "eye for an eye" to "turn the other cheek", but there are many more). Jesus also was not shy about pointing out hypocrisy among the Pharisees, scholars, and "teachers of the law" - the Bible-thumpers of that era. Many of them were probably guilty of manipulating people and grabbing power etc., the same things many Christians are accused of (and some are probably guilty of, such as the money-grubbing TV-preacher variety). But does Jesus really strike you as that way?
And Jesus didn't write a book Himself. Read the Gospels and you will see how one can follow Jesus Christ without putting the entirety Bible on a pedestal of perfection. Don't get me wrong, I think there is much wisdom in many books of the Bible, and I respect it as a whole, as Jesus did. But no, I don't hold it up as perfect.
However, if by "outrageous stories" you would include anything that is miraculous or supernatural, well, I do accept those. Whether they are all true or just some of them, I cannot be sure. Things like when the story was written down vs when it was claimed to have happened, the context of the story, whether the witnesses and the surrounding text are otherwise credible, all are worth considering. I do believe that Jesus actually rose from the dead, and if that's true, it doesn't really matter whether 50?r 75?r whatever of the other stories are true - that's sufficient for me to listen to Him. Naturally, I'm not expecting you to jump to the conclusion that the resurrection is true, I'm just letting you know my own view, please bear with me.
As for "having been brought up that way", well, yes, I was raised in a Christian home, but I think for myself. I was raised Catholic but have become a rather generic mainline Protestant, and my brother and sister are (for the time being) agnostic and atheist respectively. I'll concede there is a correlation between upbringing and belief but it is an imperfect one (Christianity is ultimately a religion of converts, in the sense that the U.S. is a nation of immigrants). And whatever the correlation is or isn't doesn't prove whether or not the faith is true. If anything, the persistency of Christianity across generations is positive evidence for its genuineness - think of the other 99?f cults-of-personality that die out with their founders.
You mention "what humans evolved to be". I accept evolution as the best available theory of biological history (not being committed to the Bible as literal and inerrant, I am free to do so and to accept science in general), and I do find its explanations of our own animal natures to be useful in many ways (why we crave certain foods, etc etc).
But "machines that reproduce and die"? I cannot accept that that is all we are. If I did I would have to dismiss all of morality and human rights as hocus-pocus too, what moral value can a meaningless lump of organic chemicals have? I can't do that. Most atheists can't either, even if it is the logical result of their belief system.
No, I believe we have souls, that we are really "conscious", and that only a living God, not an initially-lifeless universe, could ever give rise to that. Natural selection could produce machines that hunt and eat etc without any reason for making them "conscious" or any possible method for making it happen.
Source(s):
See "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis for a general introduction to the core of Christian thinking.
See "The Everlasting Man" by GK Chesterton for an outline of history with a view towards what makes Christianity distinctive.
Other works by either of these authors are generally quite good.
Also, Stephen Unwin's "The Probability of God" is a very interesting work by a physicist on how to have faith even when one finds oneself unable to believe "100?
Answered By: mjmorell - 10/31/2009 |
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