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How long to you think before climate change deniers are completely marginalized?

Seriously. This is not a troll question or an academic exercise.

I think we can agree that there are no more true climate change skeptics, those who think they can prove it's not happening or that it doesn't matter. Sure there are unknowns but the fact that it is happening, that humans are causing it and that it will have a major impact is no longer in dispute.

Considering Mr. Obama's clear intent to push new policy, how long do you think it will be before we have a tipping point in public opinion? If you think we won't reach a tipping point soon or that it doesn't matter, how can any policy initiative succeed, let alone survive?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/22/science/earth/seeking-clues-about-sea-level-from-fossil-
beaches.html?partner=EXCITE&ei=5043

“At every point, as our knowledge increases,” Dr. Raymo said, “we’ve always discovered that the climate system is more sensitive than we thought it could be, not less.”
Let’s not forget who started this.

Environmentalists simply took to heart the results brought to us by scientific observation, as this new scientific data confirmed the obvious. The next step, as a concerned and moral citizen, was to spread this information and warn of the consequences of ignoring the early warning that science has given us.

They were immediately vilified, discredited and demonized in every way possible, from accused of being Communists bent on destroying the God Given Free Market American Way of Life to Dope Smoking Hippy Degenerate Atheist Anarchists whose real wish is to exterminate Gaia’s Human Infestation.

What have reactionary conservatives done for us in the last 50 years except for enable the delay of environmental and equal rights progress by an entire generation, enable the creation an entire media-propaganda industry to inculcate and foment ignorance and hatred, enable three massive capitol destroying bubbles in the last three decades enabling an
enabling another a massive transfer of wealth from the middle and least protected classes to the already wealthy top 2?that we having seen in nearly 100 years?
Now, I’m not concerned for my own welfare, as I realized decades ago that real progress in time to make a difference on major environmental problems is likely hopeless. What I fear is that when fanatical reactionaries come to realize that their time has come and gone that they will lash out, as they did to Lincoln, the Kennedy’s, MLK, Dr. Tiller and myriad others. Who knows what they are capable of.
Who is more dangerous, one who states his intentions clearly and stands for his convictions, as for example Mr. Obama did on Monday - or one who coats his lies with the sugary syrup of obfuscatory disingenuous pseudoscientific gobbledygook and presents them in the conciliatory language of reasoned debate, where really there is no honest debate and hasn’t been for decades.
The right does not now and has never wanted an honest debate. They would lose and they know it. And so they do stealth warfare that continues to this day.

So do I think that fanatical reactionaries should be marginalized? These people will never change, they cannot be reasoned with. The damage they have done is incalculable.

What do you think and how should we proceed? We’ll just have to wait for the tipping point?
I
guess we’ll know by the end of this presidential term.
It's healthy to have an honest debate.

A carbon tax redistributed to consumers would both accelerate the conversion to non-polluting sources (I'm all for nuclear, specifically the thorium molten salt reactor) and protect consumers and the economy from price shocks. And the tax would be self limiting as fossil fuel use diminished over time.

The problem with regulatory schemes is not that they are inherently wrong, but that they are gamed.
We don't need to starve the beast, that only enables the corporatists through privatization. We need to fix the government and eliminate corruption by abolishing unlimited contributions and the entire revolving door lobby industry, and establish total public funding of truly free, fair and open elections.

What we have now in the US may be the least worst in the world, but it is still a sham run by corporate interests.

Reactionary conservatives and anti-environmentalists are one in the same. Climate change may be the number one threat to the our world, but it is just one symptom of a larger problem.

Asked By: Mr. Blob - 1/22/2013
Best Answer - Chosen by Asker
We already reached a tipping point in public opinion -- but that's a long way from marginalizing "skeptics." They'll soon shift their rants to "it's not a problem" and "scientists are exaggerating" and similar propaganda.

My view is that the problem (climate change) will not be effectively addressed until one of two things happen. One is that the effects fo climate change get so bad they can't be dismissed any longer. Sandy may have been a first taste f that.

Second -- if we have time -- climate change will be dealt with by default. There are dozens of labs and companies striving to develop an effective, affordable energy storage system that can make cars, solar power, etc. fully practical. When that happens, it will complete the alternative technology puzzle -- and the world will change. an effective energy storage system combined with cars, solar energy, etc. has too many competitive advantages. The market will do the job environmentalists have been unable to do, because that's where the profits will be.
Answered By: Hobbit - 1/22/2013
Additional Answers ()
Longer than you think
Source(s):
global politics, UN consensus
Answered By: Tuco Salamanca - 1/22/2013
The skeptics like myself will always have this thing called REALITY. Reality will prevail in the end. It will take awhile but after years where the global temperatures are NOT increasing as predicted people will realize that CAGW was a load of horse manure.
Answered By: Ian - 1/22/2013
How long did it take to convince the masses that the world was round, and not flat?

About that long.
Answered By: A.A. - 1/22/2013
Luckily we have scientific bodies like the UK Met who despite their involvement with the IPCC take global averages and reluctantly admit global warming stopped 16 years ago.
I'll leave it up to you whether you want to deny the Met's science credentials or just deny their data.

There's actually a cash prize offered somewhere for any real evidence that humans alter climate pls let me know how you spend it since you seem clear in your own mind that there's actual proof.
Answered By: Pindar - 1/22/2013
We will out last your taunting.

<Considering Mr. Obama's clear intent to push new policy> If ever there was anything to make me disbelieve in Global Warming it would be Obama's support.He just took $100 billion away from senior citizens and gave it to the fat cats at the UN, all in the name of global warming.So the next time you see those fat cats flying off in their jets to a Club med for a climate conference and drinking champagne and purchasing women of the night, you can proudly say, "I contributed to that."
Answered By: Sagebrush - 1/22/2013
Obozo says we gotta reduce carbon but not debt. The guys a geenyus.
Answered By: Cyclops - 1/22/2013
Your link didn't work but I found it on Google using your quote.
Justin Gillis is obviously not a scientist.
Here is who he is
http://climatedepot.com/a/17791/NYT-reporter-Justin-Gillis-Antarctic-ice-claims-called-a-joke-by-climatologist--Gillis-polar-sea-ice-claims-called-a-total-irrelevancy--ludicrous
A wakco leftist who pretends to be a scientist in the dinosaur media.

Nobody disputes there is a lot of ice that can melt and increase sea levels.
Raymo can look all she wants at fossil beaches. All it proves is that it was much warmer in the past due to natural causes.
Answered By: jim z - 1/22/2013
This looks like the missing link: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/22/science/earth/seeking-clues-about-sea-level-from-fossil-beaches.html/

The tipping point will come when it is politically incorrect to publicly insist on one of the great lies of human history. Like the lie that Jews were responsible for Germany's problems in the 1920s and 30s.

I would not expect that strident public denial of climate science would ever become a punishable offense in America, the way Holocaust denial is in some European countries. But some degree of 'marginalization' some day seems extremely likely. For about a decade, circa 1934-44, there were tens millions of enthusiastic and loyal disciples of the Fuehrer, and proud Nazi Party members in Europe. Then after 1945, there hardly any anti-Semitic Nazis to be found any more; just a whole lot of people who had been forced to follow orders. Some sort of flip like that is conceivable with anti-science denial of global warming. Deniers switching en masse from denying science to denying their past denial.
But we are not in "1945" with climate change denial. It is more like 1928, with each Nazi and Holocaust denial year = a multiple of climate change denial years.
Answered By: Hey Dook - 1/22/2013
Does it give you pleasure to see people marginalized?

Edit: Wow, okay you may not enjoy it but I presume you find it necessary. Well I have two points. First, it appears your anger is at conservatives rather than skeptics or deniers of AGW given the arguments you are making.

Second, and more importantly, I agree with you on some of your core concerns. Specifically, the major market bubbles and the flow of wealth upwards. The part I don't understand is that climate change policy is setting up the next major market bubble which is the carbon market. And like the last bubbles, the small investor and the regular guy are going to pay and Goldman-Sachs executives and friends are going to gain.

And if and when carbon tax or cap and trade or whatever else the EPA has planned comes into effect, it the people who use power who are going to see their bills increase. So where do you think the money flows? If you're so concerned about the wealthiest getting wealthier , where do you think it comes from? How does it get there?

You may be happy to have a Democrat government, but they have just as many friends at Goldman-Sachs as the conservatives do and maybe more. Maybe they just have a few less friends in the energy sector. Think hard for a minute if CO2 reductions is really going to change anything (i.e. specifically the concerns you listed in Additional Details). Politicians are the same at the core. They just use different arguments to keep their following.
Answered By: Ottawa Mike - 1/22/2013
I wish that enough people would see through their plant food for them to be completely marginalized. But I am sure that once sea levels rise by 1 metre, that denialists will be running from villagers who have torches and pitch forks. Until then, I do not have much hope, because denialists tell a large segment of society exactly what they want to hear.

Dookie

<This looks like the missing link>

I thought that denialists were the missing link.
Answered By: Climate Realist - 1/22/2013
Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that AGW is actually solidly based. This still does not address my stock answer:

"If man-made global warming was taken seriously by its supporters they would advocate genuine solutions such as adding small amounts of iron to the oceans to cause the microscopic plants to multiply and absorb the carbon dioxide back into the biosphere whence it originally came.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_fertilization

A solution both practical and inexpensive.

Failing that, they would advocate replacing the base load electrical power generation with mass produced nuclear power plants as one of the quickest, cheapest and most effective means of reducing carbon emissions.

If its supporters don't take it seriously, why should anyone else?"

In other words: the carbon can likely be sequestered for less money than is being tossed at the problem currently. All without source reduction which will simply destroy the developed world's economies while achieving exactly nothing because the developing world will not so bind itself.

I must add: "that humans are causing it and that it will have a major impact is no longer in dispute" was asserted from the beginning of the debate decades ago. What you don't seem to be aware of is that you are claiming to know what the climate would be had fossil emissions never occurred. Since no one can visit alternate timelines, this is based on largely inferential methods on a remarkably small factual base.
Answered By: Veidt - 1/22/2013
The NY times is pure liberal rubbish its not a source .

Its still a hoax and a way to redistribute wealth .
Answered By: MIKE L - 1/22/2013
I really hope you don't k***********f when you realize how wrong you have been about this.
Answered By: Tomcat - 1/22/2013
It depends entirely on the paths these two trends take.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8091/8391413378_b0e71e5cc1_b_d.jpg
Answered By: DaveH - 1/22/2013
"How long to you think before climate change deniers are completely marginalized?"

After the evolution deniers are completely marginalised. The scientifically illiterate demographic provide lots of votes if you keep them scared, angry & very stupid
Answered By: Jungle Jim - 1/22/2013
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